Interviewer: So thank you Vandana for coming for letting us come to your home and talk to us

I: So we are from the University of... from San Jose State University and we are creating an oral history project

I: on the Desi voice of Silicon Valley.

I: So we wanted to talk to you about your perspective, your experience of

I: being Desi and the Desi impact in Silicon Valley. So

I: if you begin with, you know, with your name, who you are, what you do, and then your journey up until now in Silicon Valley.

Vandana: Well, thank you Mantra for inviting me to be a part of this project.

V: My name is Vandana Kumar. I came to this country in 1986, February

V: 23rd

V: 1986 and

V: ---

V: I came to this country as an arranged marriage bride. You know

V: it was ... those of us who grew up in India are very familiar with the institution of arranged marriage and

V: ---

V: it was the norm, you know, I came here. My husband was an engineer and in Silicon Valley.

V: We didn't call it the Silicon Valley then. He was he was in San Jose, California and the suburbs of San Francisco, you know.

It was-it was San Francisco.

V: ---

V: So I came at a time ...

V: It was only a little over 35-34 years, about-about that time

V: But it feels like a

V: such a-such a long time ago

V: simply because

V: technology has changed the way we look at the world.

V: What seems so far, what seemed

V: so alien, so unknown

V: seems completely unthinkable today.

V: I grew up in a small town called Jamshedpur.

V: And

V: I never really went outside my small city. I mean to study or we went out for vacations and things like that, but

V: I had no exposure to the big world in the United States.

V: ---

V: Also

V: because my knowledge was limited by what I knew and what I had access to, which was the written word,

V: the printed newspapers that came to my small hometown, the

V: libraries carried books about James Hadley Chase or

V: showed the Western movies at the local movie theater. So it was limited to a very

V: Hollywood-Hollywood version of America. And if you compare, it's not quite that.

Interviewer: Yeah Yeah I want you to talk about that. You know, you know,

I: what you knew or heard or read about and your actual experience. V: So at the academic level

V: you do understand that, you know, the exposure that I'd had was very limited. Meaning

V: the movies weren't probably just the way that the whole country was, but that was all that I actually saw.

V: ---

V: So yeah, oh my gosh, you know it's -there's like so much to talk about,

V: but

V: I think Hollywood plays a big role in how the world sees America even today.

V: But today the big difference being that

V: with the internet being accessible even now in the remotest part of the globe,

V: ---

V: anyone who has a smartphone can actually find out

V: details about any small town in any part of the world. And people are empowered to be with that information.

V: I felt you know - looking back, I can say that I didn't have that

V: ---

V: advantage. I had very lim- little and limited knowledge.

V: But when you are young

V: ---

V: the worl- everything, life's an adventure.

V: And you take to everything with equal enthusiasm, you know.

V: There are no barriers.

V: And --- so even though I came from a really small place

V: to a place to a country that was

V: ---

V: so vast and

V: when I didn't know a single person actually. I did not know a single person in this huge country.

V: The nearest person that I did know was

V: 10,000 miles away: my family in India.

V: So it can be an incredibly isolating experience.

V: And I think

V: that experience for the new immigrant has changed today

V: simply because distances have become so close. You know distances are not really there anymore.

I: So you said that it wasn't called Sil-Silicon Valley in the 80s, but you knew it was a suburb of San Francisco.

V: Yes. I: So what did San Francisco mean to you at the time?

V: Oh, San Francisco, what a romantic place, you know.

V: What a beautiful city. It was featured in many Hollywood movies.

V: So it certainly had cachet. You know, it had that recognition, like

V: it's this beautiful place.

V: ---

V: It was America, you know. It was considered to be the land of opportunity. So coming here -

V: I mean it was not-not a hardship in any way, you know, I...

V: It's just like learning to

V: exist in a new place, learning to navigate

V: in a new environment.

V: And ---

V: Silicon Valley - I think that term was just about

V: being introduced at that time because of the mushrooming of all these

V: technology companies.

V: But I think the term Silicon Valley really came into its own a little while later

V: where

V: It - what is that-What does that really mean?

V: What does it mean to an average person even across the globe? Really, Silicon Valley

V: stands for innovation,

V: the hub of innovation,

V: and the incredible

V: diversity that's here in this

V: place.

V: It's ...

V: It's amazing and it's amazing because of the energy that it brings.

V: I think immigrants no matter where they come from in the world,

V: they bring with them a drive to succeed.

V: A drive to

V: make their mark in their new homeland and

V: America has thrived across the ages because of this immigrant energy, and

V: in the Silicon Valley it brought energy of a

V: certain kind:

V: educated,

V: engineering people with an engineering

V: ---

V: background.

V: And slowly an ecosystem was built over here that allowed entrepreneurs no matter where they came from in the world

V: to find the talent, to find the legal help, to find everything that they might need to actually start a business

V: around technology.

V: Even today I think even across the globe, the Silicon Valley is recognized for the talent that's available here.

I: Hmm.

V: But you know, it's something that we grew into and I was happy to be actually a part of that

V: realization like "Oh, I actually lived in the Silicon Valley".

I: Mmm. V: You know that was sort of an enviable place across the globe.

I: Great, so-so is it-is it right to say that you identify yourself as a Desi of Silicon Valley?

V: Absolutely. I: And what does that mean to you? V: So Desi is a Hindi word, which means

V: country.

V: You know, in colloquialism you, instead of saying "Desh," you say "Dess."

V: You, you, you may have grown up with the watching Hindi movies

V: That's if they always talk about going back to Dess.

V: You know, "Chal Aaj Desava Ki Aur"[Hindi: Let's go to our homeland], you know

V:---

V: So the word Dess is really, relates, I think, to the Indian American community in the Silicon Valley.

V: ---

V: You know, I'm not exactly sure when that term came about.

V: ---

V: We-we always called ourselves Indian American.

I: Hmm.

V: But I think as the numbers grew with the late 90s,

V: we saw huge influx of Indians that actually came into the Silicon Valley.

V: Now this was a different kind of immigrant because till that time

V: we'd had

V: people who came to the United States as

V: ---

V: students and

V: after becoming, you know, getting their Master's degree or

V: PhD or whatever it is, higher education that they came for,

V: they got a job and then they started from scratch, you know.

V: Why do I say that

V: there was a new breed of people? Because this was a whole bunch of people that came to the United States on an H-1B on H1

V: H1 visa I: Hmm.

V: which was the demand of the industry at that point because they were looking to get more people

V: working here on legacy systems and

V: India was producing these engineers that were knowledgeable about the legacy systems and

V: this

V: and this was, you know, it heralded a

V: mass migration of engineers from India across the globe. What was called the Y2K

V: problem I: Hmm.

V: where computer systems were switching over from

V: two-digit years to a four-digit year and people had all kinds of, you know,

V: ---

V: there were uncertainties around this. Like what how would the computer systems handle it and

V: was there going to be any apocalypse, you know, was there going to be,

V: ---

V: you know, malfunction or failure of computer systems on a massive scale. People didn't know that.

V: But this influx this these people that went out across the globe including to the Silicon Valley

V: they came with jobs, they were young and

V: in some ways they came with a disposable income, you know, which was different from the Indians that were there earlier because

V: students who just graduated, by definition poor, I: Of course.

V: you know, and with less disposable income I: Hmm. V: It changed the

V: dynamics in the Valley.

V: You see till that time. We had a

V: few Indian restaurants. Actually, when I came here there was one or two Indian restaurants.

V: There was maybe one or two Indian grocery stores.

I: Hmm.

V: Now all these guys who came and they were largely guys I: Hmm. V: who came.

V: They wanted to eat a good Indian meal, I: Hmm.

V:No compromises, you know, I'm ready to pay, I want this good.

V: Yeah, so all these all-you-can-eat buffets. I: Hmm.

V: So many of them! I mean, literally hundreds every ---

V: around every office area there were all these Indian places because there was a demand.

V: So they were willing to have, you know, pay for

V: services like that. Now, when I came, I didn't have that same experience. If you wanted to eat Indian food you wanted, you know,

V: you learn how to make it, you learn how to cook it. I: (Laughs).

V: You want to learn you want to make "mithai"[Hindi: Sweet],

V: you want to eat "mithai"[Hindi: Sweet]. Well, make it, you know.

V: That's actually an experience I wrote about in our

V: magazine on our 30th anniversary

V: because

V: You know India Currents was born ... I want to show you this now. I want to talk a little bit about it.

I: yes yes. Vandana: Because

V: see this started. ---

V: Volume one, number one, April 1987. I: Hmm

Vandana: It started because there was

V: no place for

V: Indians to come together. We were looking to create a community. I was, I was one of the people

V: and ---

V: I talked about how isolating things can be, about the experiences of an immigrant could be at that time.

I: Hmm.

V: Again I realize, you know, I think about somebody who might be watching this today is like what's she talking about?

V: You know, but it was a different world. When you don't know anyone. There's no way to connect.

V: ---

V: Starting "India Currents" was the idea of trying to find other people like us because when you realize that

V: I'm feeling so lonely, surely there are other people out there that are feeling the same.

V: I just don't know who they are. I: Hmm.

V: I don't know how to reach them.

V: But surely they are there, and

V: the magazine in all of this started without any plans of it becoming a business.

V: But it filled a need for us, and it clearly touched a nerve in the larger

V: community, you know. It was, it clearly met. Yeah.

V: Entrepreneurship is all about

V: meeting the unmet need, I: Hmm. V: and

V: today we can talk about "Oh, what a wonderful entrepreneurial idea", but

V: we didn't know it was an entrepreneurial idea. It was something we did because it was a labor of love. I: Hmm.

V: You know, something that

V: it fulfilled for us.

V: But the beautiful thing that "India Currents" did is, it actually built a community.

V: They became a platform that the community could rally around. I: Hmm.

V: It was the one place that you could all, anyone could come and come and share their point of view, and

V: we were very accepting because we didn't really have any resources. We didn't really have

V: even a background in publishing or journalism or anything like that. But what we knew is

V: there was a void in our lives and sentiments, and

V: we are looking to find others on this journey.

V: Because surely they were there,

V: and we would see them occasionally here and there. Not like today, where there are, you know,

V: people everywhere. We are a visible minority today, but it didn't, it wasn't always like that.

V: So people are always looking, you know, looking to find other people like us.

I: Yes. V:We have this feeling. I mean, that's a human need, right? And

V: for our 30th anniversary, somebody, you know, my editor was asking me is like

V: Ab(Hindi: now) Share your reflections about 30 years of the Silicon Valley,

V: being part of India Currents, and I wrote a very small little piece. Did I share this with you already?

V: I don't remember.

V: But if it's okay, could I can I read this?

I: Yeah.

V: ---

V: "1987, a new immigrant in a foreign land.

V: Incredible loneliness.

V: Phone calls to India are three dollars and fifty cents a minute.

V: Aerograms cost 36 cents.

V: It takes 28 days to get a reply.

V: Were there others like me?

V: How did they cope?

V: I scan the local newspapers. No news of anything familiar.

V: Iran-Contra crisis.

V: India, if ever mentioned, was in the news of the weird.

V: Dow Jones was at

V: 2372. Was this my new reality?

V: Mother to twin boys.

V: Satisfaction of creating a family, a home, and yet nothing familiar to ground me.

V: Craving the taste of home, craving the sounds of home. Rasmalai?

Interviewer: [Laugh]

V: Make it with cottage cheese.

V: Croon to Lata and Kishore [music legends] on spooling cassette tapes. Were there others like me?

V: How do I reach them?

V: "India Currents" is born. A

V: platform to share events and thoughts that are familiar.

V: No plans,

V: forecasts, or ROI. A hunger to share, the desire to explore our hyphenated identities.

V: The challenge of finding resources, the thrill of discovering fellow travelers, the hunger to belong.

V: 2017.

V: After 30 years from then,

V: vibrant social life, FaceTime Mummy every day, WhatsApp for free.

V: Share life with family across the globe, a connected world. I

V: scan the local newspapers now, featuring Indian Americans regularly. Read about the global

V: rush to harness the middle, the buying power of the Indian middle class.

V: The Dow Jones is twenty thousand six hundred sixty eight.

V: I'm a mother-in-law now, I buy rasmalai at Costco. I stream Hindi music on my iPhone.

V: "India Currents" celebrates 30 years.

V: The original quest to explore our hyphenated identities

V: stays strong.

V: The aspirations of a community have not changed. The hunger-the hunger remains. The hunger to belong,

V: the hunger to connect.

V: What started as a community platform remains a labor of love for me.

V: Readers, writers, editors,

V: advertisers, we could not have done this without you. Thanks to all that have been a part of this journey."

I: Great, very well done, too.

V: So it captures, you know, what

V: life was like for

V: me. It's a very personal experience.

V: Then,

V: you know, and what it became 30 years later. So in some ways,

V: my experiences taught me a lot of things: the value of human connections, of interactions, and of the helping hand.

V: And because I felt so lonely, I

V: made it a point that anytime I would meet a young woman who was new from India,

V: no matter where the scenario was, whether it was in a grocery store or a restaurant or at the library or

V: any place, I always

V: offered advice or help, maybe unsolicited, but I

V: offered

V: my number saying that if you have any questions,

V: feel free to call me. I'm happy to answer them. Because that was something that I felt,

V: I did not have. I did not have anybody to ask,

V: if I were going to a store, what size is my clothes?

V: What size?

V: How do you know your size? What is a size 2 or 4 or 6? How do you

V: know what size underwear to buy?

V: And it's incredibly personal, it's incredibly ... but it's one that affects everybody and

V: I wanted to offer that help. And as a result, you know, for a lot of people

V: I built a vast network of

V: largely women that I connected with. And

V: that

V: appreciated this, you know, and we have the concept of calling Didi, right? I: Yes. V: I became Didi to a lot of people. [Laughs]

I: That's great. That's very needed-very needed. V: Yeah. And

V: we started, I was actually the founder of an organization called Bihar Samaj because I was from Bihar and

V: I was also raising a family. Unlike today where we have such a vibrant community,

V: we didn't have that that, but I wanted my children to

V: experience some of the festivals the way I had experienced, the foods that were,

V: you know, a part of our celebrations. And

V: the music and dance that were part of the Bihar that I grew up in. I

V: wanted to share all of that with them.

V: So because there was nothing else then, you know, you start it yourselves. Like, okay.

V: So we started. But today I think kids don't have any of, any such needs

V: because

V: the opportunities for knowing your culture, again with technology, which has brought everything so close. Whether it's YouTube,

V: Google, or you know, Facebook that allows you to share so much.

V: It has bridged these distances in a way that was not possible for me when I had a computer. And

V: we built strong relationships, you know, even doing

V: festivals that were important for the place that I grew up in, you know, Dusshera and Holi, the festivals that you have, Durga Pooja.

V: So we organized two events around the year, whole bunch of families that, you know, were raising kids just like I was,

Interviewer: Hmm.

Vandana: you know, would participate. We would cook, you know, local foods till it grew to a point, like

V: okay, we can't do this anymore. It has to be catered.

I: Laughs. V: Laughs. I: Right yes.

I: So since you have been so involved and almost kind of initiating

I: --- ---

I: Like I said, described India Currents as a platform, of course, but you almost initiated a kind of a

I: cohesiveness in all the Indians in-in the region so that they could all come together

I: socially and then through a piece like "India Currents." V: Yes. I: Right?

V: Yeah. I: In that sense why-why do you think

I: this whole, you know, the Desi culture is so, so vibrant in Silicon Valley? Why is it so vibrant here?

V: I think India Currents has a big role to play I: Hmm.

V: and has had a big role to play I: Hmm. V: in that. I mentioned at the beginning, you know this feeling of

V: disconnectedness that everybody had you know. I mean, I was an example, right?

V: And

V: knowing that

V: what I again, I'd mentioned earlier, knowing that surely there were others like me.

I: Hmm.

V: What India Currents did is, it

V: built a community. While we were all individuals at that-until that time,

V: because there was no one place that we could all come together.

I: Hmm. V: And

V: India Currents became a platform around culture. I: Hmm. V: And was something that as first-generation

V: immigrants we all, it was a binding force. It wasn't a divisive force in any way.

V: We all create, in fact, you know, I learned so much more about Hindustani music, Co-Carnatic music

V: or about the classical arts of India after I left India.

I: Okay.

V: When I am starting-when I started living here, I: Hmm. V: I had that, you know,

V: desire to know.

V: And as I was raising a family here, I also realized like I

V: want to give a strong sense of identity to my children. I: Hmm.

V: Because I had a strong sense of identity. You know, I knew I was

V: Indian. I

V: had Indian heritage. And I was very familiar with the Indian

V: culture as I had grown up. I: Hmm.

V: And I was learning to navigate the space of being an

V: Indian-American because there was no denying my Indianess. I: Hmm.

V: My accent, my skin color, my choice of words.

V: Everything reflected that I was this hyphenated

V: Indian. My children on the other hand would tell me that, "Mom, you are Indian. I am American." And

V: I wanted my children to grow up with ...

V: not

V: apologizing for who they were. I wanted them to be proud of who they were.

V: And

V: I felt some of that was coming from that place of trying to distance. Say that

V: being Indian is one thing and being

V: American is another thing.

But I realized we were really Indian-Americans.

I: Hmm..

V: And if we were in a place, and perhaps a lot of hyphenated cultures are like that, you have the advantage of taking the best

V: of both cultures that you've had exposure to.

V: So why not take that? And

V: I think ... I

V: wanted to tell my children through my work and through everything that I did, I think I've been ... I- I am

V: I know that I am a role model for my children.

V: But we create role models out of everyday people. I: Hmm. V: By people who embrace who they are.

V: And I think I-I-I

V: have this funny story that I tell a lot of people.

V: You know when we had moved here, my children were

V: you know, they were in elementary school. And my son we'd had this exchange about you are Indian, I am American.

V: So I said, you know, let's go stand at the corner of[street names - inaudible].

V: Ask every person who goes by what they think I am and what they think you are.

I: Hmm.

V: And we will, let's talk after that. I: Hmm. V:So my son thought about that first.

V: And then he got really mad at me. He said, how are they going to know? I said my point exactly.

V: If you are brown, people will always think of you. You're always going to be asked this question-

V: where are you from? I: Hmm.

V: So you might as well embrace it, I:Hmm. V: you know. And

V: ---

V: because people judge just the way-on the way you look, so be comfortable with who you are.

V: You're American, you know. I mean, born and raised in America.

V: So you're going to think differently, but you have the advantage of living at home, having a grandfather live at home, having a multi-

V: generational family.

V: Having, you know, being familiar with the cultures that we are,

V: ---

V: that we have taught you about. Oh this is how things are done. This is how we celebrate Holi.

V: This is how. Today Holi is such a big deal.

V: I mean universities across, certainly in California and many other places, now they have these color runs

V: and fun runs and it's become a big,

V: you know,

V: cultural activity. I: Hmm.

V: But it wasn't then. I: Hmm.

V: But I think a lot of immigrants and a lot of students and a lot of people have had a role to play in that.

V: And

V: India Currents became the place that everybody would come to share their experience,

V: their cultural experience. And

V: this sharing group and

V: there's power of

V: multiplication, right? One person has an experience,

V: we share it. We print it; Now, so many more other people know about it and it's an idea for them.

I: Hmm.Hmm.

V: Because now they're empowered. -- so-and-so has done it. Oh, what a wonderful idea. I: Hmm.

V: And you know, just

V: earlier this month, my niece who was born, raised, everything is raising kids of her own over here.

V: Biracial family,

V: multi-faith family, all of this. In her son's

V: elementary school,

V: they organized Holi. Her husband is not Indian. I mean, she's

V: Indian-American. Her husband is

V: Jewish, of Jewish faith. They organized in their school

V: Holi for all students.

V: They let the parents know. They had the kids come in white

V: t-shirts and made the parents, let them wear old t-shirts and [unclear]. They provided color,

V: talked about Holi. She ... like if I think of the time that I started telling my children about that.

V: 35 years later, I: Hmm.

V: how wonderful-how wonderful that

V: ---

V: a class of, you know, kids in Santa Monica are learning about Holi through

V: a completely different family. I:Hmm.Hmm.

V: That so many people are so comfortable and so proud of their culture I: Hmm.

V: to be able to share, and I think the more we know about

V: other cultures, it makes us

V: less of "the other", you know, I:Hmm. V: here less,

V: we are always afraid of the unknown. And

V: there are all these entities that take advantage of the

V: fear, I: Hmm. V: and I think the more we share our culture

V: with other people and they understand where you're coming from, what it is that you're celebrating.

V: We ...

V: we are ambassadors for our culture,

I: Hmm.

V: and that's the point that you open. You had asked, I think, that

V: what I sensed here,

V: your question to me,

V: what is the role of a Desi

I: in Silicon Valley. V: in Silicon Valley today? I: Hmm.

V: And I think I've come to that point where I think we are all ambassadors of our culture.

V: And it's a responsibility, and one that we should not take lightly because

V: ---

V: we are still a small

V: minority. Here in the Valley we are visible minority now, I: Hmm.Hmm.

V: but in the whole country there is still a very small community.

V: But we come from, and we have such a rich heritage that

V: the world is only going to be enriched when it learns about it. And so I think it's important for all of us I: Hmm

V: to be ambassadors. I:Hmm. V: To go around,

V: ---

V: explain, not explain, share. I:Hmm.

V: I think sharing is actually a better word to say that this is who I am and

V: I do that and-and personal capacity also and-and so there are many, many, many other people.

I: So.---

I: You describe. I mean, these are the great stories to hear about the Silicon Valley and the community.

I: But also like, you know

I: If you ... you may have lived in other cities in the country, or have traveled or have family in other parts of the country.

I: So what is unique about Silicon Valley that you think makes the Desis here

I: different from maybe Desis in other cities, other parts of this country?

I: Is there something unique that you have noticed over the years of Silicon Valley?

V: I think ...

V: There's, first of all, there's a sense of cohesiveness. I: So, how does that happen? How does that

happen? V: So, how does that happen? It's a-it's an interesting question, I'm not sure I, we have

V: an

V: answer for that. But it was a certain kind of immigrant that came to the valley.

V: It wasn't people interested in acting or in, you know,

V: people who have interest in the entertainment industry who may have navigated or gravitated towards the

V: Los Angeles area, I:Hmm.Hmm. V: the southern or people in the finance

V: space that may have navigated move to the

V: eastern part of the country where the financial capital is. I: Hmm.

V: This is where nerdy engineers came. I: Hmm.

V: And we know that India produces

V: lots of engineers I: Yes

V: and doctors. I: Yes V: And

V: ---.

V: the-the-the

V: timing of the

V: H1 visa, I think,

V: brought a whole .. but, well, I am phrasing this very badly. But,

V: how should I say what makes these people different? I think largely because

V: it's only, it's largely engineers who came here. I: Hmm.

V: Not a lot of other kinds of Indians, and they're also looking to connect.

I: Hmm.

V: They're also connected because a large number of their engineering schools in India are connected.

I: Yeah. V: So ... and then we're living in a place of technology

I: Hmm. V: where there is Facebook and this

V: Google I: Hmm. V: and Apple and ...

V: ---.

V: So being connected was like, became part of their DNA and then we had a variable platform

I: Hmm.

V: where people were connecting. I: Sure V: And

V: today people may not know me

V: as individually, but

V: people know the magazine. I: Yes Yes. V: They know the platform, it's like "Oh, India Currents."

V: "I know about that. Oh, I-this was my life savior when I came to the United States,

V: this was the place where I found myself,

V: this is where I found, bought my tickets to India before you were buying it, everything online.

I: Hmm. V: You know, this is how I found specialty items."

I: Yeah V: This is where people bought their

V: clothes. This is where people found out about teaching culture to their generations of, you know, they're raising a

V: family. I want to teach them how to dance. I want to teach them how to

V: sing Indian classical music. I: Yeah, this is something I want to ask. Like when I was reading up

I: about in general, there is this huge

I: flourishing of Carnatic music for example, right? And even Hindustani music but Carnatic music is thriving in this region.

I: In fact, some people said that it's doing better than in-in

V: In India. I: In India.

I: And especially in Chennai regions, doing better than there. But, you know,

I: typically the engineers are very tech focus, tech-savvy people. V: Vijay. I: But why are they

I: connecting like that? Yeah. V: Apologies. We're talking about engineers, I think it's really important to

V: bring in engineers in this conversation. I: Yes..

V: I think we are pioneers,

V: and that's why I said the reason it's different here I: Yes V: is because of India Currents. Because since

V: 1987, we have built this,

V: an

V: ecosystem where they could thrive. I: Hmm. V: Because if somebody was teaching Carnatic music

I: Hmm. V: in their home, how are they able to find students?

I: Hmm.

I: Right. V: Could they afford to advertise in the Mercury News?

I: Hmm. V: Or the New York Times? No. I: Hmm. Vijay: No, they will look at ...

V: They, we were able to deliver a target audience

I: Hmm.

V: for small businesses. Now, whether it was the local restaurant that offered all-you-can-eat lunch buffet for $5.99

I: Hmm.

V: or a Carnatic music teacher who was teaching music in her garage I: Hmm. V: or the Kathak

V: dancer who was teaching

V: Kathak dance in in her home.

I: Hmm.

V: So,

V: we started, you know, now that they were able to advertise for a very nominal price in our

V: magazine.

V: The magazine was being sent out to

V: 30,000 people, I: Hmm.Hmm.

V: 30,000 homes, I: Hmm. V: at no cost.

I: Hmm. V: And we had a very unique model, you know.

V: We were printing, mailing, distributing, at no cost to the end-user. I: ---, Hmm.

V: And ---

V: It's getting into people's homes, it's getting into...

V: ---

V: So I'm getting into people's homes. The thing about

V: any advertiser was that they could be guaranteed. Like, I'm getting to a place that people are actually interested.

I: Hmm. Hmm. V: And they saw their businesses grow. I: Hmm.

V: That the whole bunch of other people who were also

V: quietly doing things in their homes also wanted to be visible I: Hmm. V: said, "Hey, me too."

V: "I also offer these services. You can come to my space, too." The Bay area is very unique geographically. I: Hmm.

V: Because in about half an hour to 45 minutes, you can really go from anywhere to anywhere. I: Hmm.

V: And

V: if you are living in San Jose, well, you can find a teacher near you. I: Hmm.

V: You don't Have to go to Berkeley, I: Hmm. V: which is what earlier people would have to do.

I : Yes. V: And

V: I think that's also a difference between here and LA, Los Angeles. I: Hmm. V: Which is so widespread

V: that there wasn't a place, for one place for people to come, I: Hmm. V: come together, you know.

V: Even for us to distribute in that area was hard because it's so widespread. I: Hmm.

V: But the Bay Area was concentrated all around the Bay.

V: You know, people were constantly moving, I: Hmm.

V: and we were able to get ... we are also based here and I think that helps.

Vijay: Coming back to your first question. I: Yes. engineer. Vijay: Yes..yeah. Engineer. I have a very -- --

I: Before saying that, would you introduce yourself? Vijay: My name is Vijay Rajvaidya, and I'm also a co-publisher now

Vijay: with "India Currents." "Now" I say because my

Vijay: career was with clients. So here I speak with some authority. I: Laugh. Vijay: Like some authority, not all.

Vijay: Vandana speaks with full authority because she has been in this

Vijay: single platform all her life. I: Hmm.

Vijay: I did switch, made a switch. So the point is that, like

Vijay: Vandana mentioned, this place developed as a

Vijay: center or hub for the innovators and the technology innovators, by the way,

Vijay: not in some other field, technology innovators. And from India

Vijay: a lot of technologists came over here. It so happened that in India

Vijay: the similar focus was happening in the geography called Bangalore

I: Hmm.

Vijay: or

Vijay: Hyderabad or little bit in Chennai.

I: Hmm.

Vijay: The northern cities came later on. I: Hmm.

Vijay: So when the American companies sourced these younger people who were to come and work for

Vijay: them over here. It happened that they were more from these southern cities of India. I: Yes.

I: Yes. Vijay: Southern India, South Indian.

I: Hmm. Vijay: That is where you find so much of Carnatic music,

Vijay: focused development and all,

Vijay: because-because they were South Indian and in the food also.

I: Yes. Vijay: I guess in culture everywhere, so this is the

Vijay: distinctness of it. I: Hmm.Hmm. Vijay: Second thing is technology brings more innovators.

Vijay: I mean, you have innovators in finance industry also, but by the nature of it the

Vijay: finance industry is conservative. I: Hmm. Vijay: By nature, it is conservative.

I: Yes. Vijay: Technology by nature is looking for ... entertainment is also very

Vijay: innovative, actually. But innovative ... it is, but there is only one big huge Hollywood over there.

I: Hmm. Vijay: So there, people maybe went over there.

Vijay: From that point of view, this place was distinct.

Vijay: Yes. I: But-but the practice of cultural forms ... I mean, like okay, engineer.

I: It's like, you know, making great salaries, you know, maybe two-household incomes. Vijay: true. true. I: or everything but

I: then why this need to you know find the music class for the kids? Why the need to teach an instrument and

I: then start a class or not, and then send kids. Why this? Vijay: Yes.

Vijay: Did you notice one sentence what Vandana said that

Vijay: in the beginning itself that she learned about

Vijay: Hindustani music, Indian culture after coming here. I: Yeah.

Vijay: So what happens when the culture surrounds you, you'll pick it up.

Vijay: But when that culture doesn't surround you, your longing makes you to learn. I : Yeah, that's true.

Vijay: Isn't it. So that is exactly what happened. Vandana: Yeah, and I think all of us. ---

V: We may have learned ourselves.

V: But we definitely want to make sure our children I: Hmm..

V: knew about it.

V: Yes, you know only when they're young, they're under your control [Laughs]

V: So you can expose whatever things you think are important to them.

I: Yeah

V: As children grow up and develop their own interests and as they become adults then they're going to do

V: whatever they're going to do. I: Hmm.

V: But it's very interesting. And certainly, I think I've had the opportunity to see that dance

V: classes that were advertised here, students that joined because of the dance classes that were advertised here have

V: gone on to complete their

V: graduation and get jobs. I: Hmm.

V: Gone on to even get, you know, get married, have kids, have a family. Then-then their children,

V: sending them to dance classes that are advertised here. I: Hmm. V: So in a way that legacy

I:Hmm.

V: continues and ---

V: Because I think all of us. I've actually met people here,

V: young women, maybe in their 30s,

V: who said they grew up with "India Currents." I:Hmm. V: Always taking it for granted.

V: It was something that was always there on their coffee tables in their, in their homes.

V: But I

V: knew that their parents really liked, you know, what was written.

V: What was there in the magazine and we always used it for,

V: you know, finding resources. I:Hmm

V: We became like the yellow pages then, you know, the yellow pages for the Desi community, you know, trying to find

V: food services,

V: culture,

V: events. You know, when we had our 25th

V: anniversary celebration, the Consulate General of India had come to the event, and he said a sentence that I

V: absolutely loved. Because he said, if an event is not listed in "India Currents," is it really happening? I: Yes. I remember

I: reading that.

I: I know the gesture.

V: So I think we built that reputation, that if an event was happening it had to be listed in "India Currents." I: Yeah

V: And it really became the go-to source. Now many people also told us,

V: I don't have the time to actually go to all of these events,

V: but I love looking through the pages and seeing what all is happening. I: Yes.

I: I do that, too. V: And you know, you see that "Oh, you know, oh, there's a play, there's a dance."

V: "There's a, you know, fair, there's a book reading" and we're seeing, we are a vibrant, you know,

V: culturally aware I: Yes

V: community here. I: Yes. V: And people, they value that.

Vijay: If I may add a comment to that earlier question today, why would they send their children to learn

I: Hmm.

Vijay: music lessons? So it comes from what, when I was saying earlier, the identity part of it. I:Hmm.

Vijay: So there is a desire to have your identity. You are looking, you look different,

Vijay: so you have that identity and take pride in that identity. I: Hmm.

Vijay: But when you want to take pride, you need to have some anchor, what are you anchoring into?

I: Hmm..

Vijay: Fortunately, we come from a

Vijay: community, society, culture, or the country or the

Vijay: region,

Vijay: which is an ancient civilization.

I:Hmm.

Vijay: There is a lot of cultural development over there. I:Yes. Vijay: in every part of it, right?

Vijay: In the subcontinent of India. So we have something available.

Vijay: Immediately, the attention turns to, let me connect to that.

I: Hmm.

Vijay: You know, that is what gives you the reason to take pride in your identity. It becomes the reason for that.

I: Yes.

Vijay: So, we all --- my boys took jazz classes for, in saxophone in the school and at home in tabla.

I: Hmm. Yes. Vijay: So it was tabla and jazz combined. That is how we did it [Laughs].

I: Hmm..Hmm... it is wonderful.

I: Yeah, so, you know, I mean you have touched upon this, you know, in all the stories have shared, but

I: how do you think, you know, being in Silicon Valley that influenced your identity as a Desi?

I: Silicon Valley's role. Like when you came, how different it was. Over the years the way

I: it has transformed, and with so many Indians coming in,

I: your network has increased. Like social, personal, and professional networks.

I: So how do you think Silicon Valley influences your identity today?

Vijay: I ... if I may take take a crack at it first?

Vijay: That also goes to my identity. I

Vijay: This is my personal experience. I: Hmm. Vijay: I ...

Vijay: when I go and I was in tech industry, went everywhere in the world. I was at the front-end marketing

Vijay: sales, so I was traveling all over the world.

Vijay: The pride it gives you, that you're coming from the center of technology. I: Hmm.

Vijay: Oh, my god. Your head is high. I:Hmm. Vijay: Everytime.

Vijay: And all over the world, you are identified with that, whether you want it or not. I:Hmm.

Vijay: So that right away gives you that difference, you know.

Vijay: You know something. Little bit above ... everybody less or more..everybody is less or more.

Vijay: Technology will make. I: Technology.. Vijay: Yes. Even this morning, when I am talking on a technology

Vijay: subject with a friend, and they're discussing that something the director of IIT

Vijay: You know, IIT brand in India. I: Yes. Yes, of course.

Vijay: and the whole thing becomes very full of gravity and attention because they said that we were,

Vijay: we are associated to the people in Silicon Valley.

I: Hmm.

Vijay: They know how much pride it brings. I: Sure. Vijay: So the identity, right?

I: And that connected with the fact that you are of Indian origin.

Vijay: Exactly. I: How does that connect?

Vijay: There-there is a I: I mean, it's a, unlike

I: people from India, you know, who have come at a similar time, but in different parts of the country, somebody in

I : Minnesota, somebody in

I: Alabama, right?

I: I mean not to under, then downplay any other, any other region of the country,

I: but their identities as Desis and your identity as Desi of Silicon Valley. They're very different. So, how does that

I: Silicon Valley influence you?

Vijay: There's an anecdote that I used to tell you about. When I was traveling,

Vijay: that's technology the store room where I landed in Sydney,

Vijay: Sydney in Australia. It was an afternoon flight.

Vijay: There is nobody at the airport for, anyway. I: Hmm.

Vijay: So like this, and I get a cab, and this is an Australian white guy, and he looks at me and he says,

Vijay: "Indian?" I: Hmm. Vijay: And I said, yes, and

Vijay: next ten minutes he is just talking what makes you Indians so

Vijay: much superior in technology and mathematics and physics?

Vijay: Isn't it, that's it.

Vijay: We have, it's in. Laughs..so to you. You wanted to say.

Vandana: I think there is something to be said for the branding of Silicon Valley. And

V: in ... you grew up in India, so you know that.

V: ---

V: You know, you grew up at slightly different time, but when I was growing up if you were a smart

V: person, smart student,

V: you did.

V: You became an engineer or a doctor. I: Hmm. V: You definitely studied science, I: Laughs.

V: you know? So

V: that was my dad, too. I was

V: considered a smart kid, and

V: I always loved language and literature.

V: My mother is actually a professor of Hindi. I: Hmm. V: And I wanted to do something different,

V: but I

V: don't think, I didn't really have that option. I: Hmm. V: You know, because I was a smart kid. I: Hmm.

V: So I had to study science. So I actually have a degree in chemistry.

I: Okay. Vijay: Laughs.

V: And ...

V: and I know that many people like me,

V: who went into doing science and engineering, and, you know, became doctors.

V: Not because that's what they were driven towards.

V: Though that's where the

V: opportunity was I: Yes V: in those days.

V: Things are really changed. I think you know that

V: opportunities have opened up in every aspect. Kids who are growing up in India today are not, don't have the same

V: choices that I had. I:Hmm.

V: But certainly for

V: many, many years that was the norm. I: Hmm. V: You know, if people

V: were considered smart. They actually became engineers. They were the ones who went into

V: administrative services.

V: They were the ones who went on to a higher, you know,

V: government officers also.

V: Not politicians, not elections, but, you know, in the other administrative side. As a result,

V: I mean, India has so many engineers that they sent to the

V: United States, and these engineers have their

V: own way of thinking. I: Hmm. V: You know, it's the nerdiness continues.

Vijay: Laugh.

V: Which is the ...

V: the approach, you know. There's a certain approach that you find in people with an engineering background.

V: Their approach, it's-its methodical. I: Yes. V: And it's also, and in some ways, then it's also a recipe for success

V: because you create a plan and then you create a path to reach that plan,

V: to achieve that goal. And that application

V: was also happening in the cultural space. A lot of these engineers, a lot of people that were writing for us or

V: that were teaching

V: music. They had a day job; they were engineers. I: Yes. Yes V: And by evening they were tabla players. I: Hmm.

V: Or they were, you know, playing

V: Veena, or they were playing other things or acting.

V: Other things. But it was those ... it was the engineering job

V: and the engineering mindset that actually allowed them the

V: freedom to do all these other things.

I: Hmm.

V: And I think a new generation of people don't have those constraints, you know. There are people that I know- I know people

V: here, whose children are now pursuing music full-time as a career. I: Hmm. V: Or acting or

V: theatre designing or, you know, like the ...

V: They're not going just towards engineering, not trying to become engineers or doctors. I: Hmm.

V: Although their parents would naturally strive to say this. This is what gave me a life of success,

V: this is what you need to do.

V: I

V: have friends whose children say to their parents, like, well,

V: you have achieved this success so that I can try and pursue my passion. I: Hmm. V: I have the

V: luxury of pursuing I: Hmm. V: my passion.

V: But I understand parents' concerns. Everyone wants their children to stand on their own feet.

V: People may have all come. And I ... and I'm sure you've done, come across many people who say, "I came to this country with,

V: you know, one suitcase." I: Hmm. V: And I remind my children of that all the time.

V: I said, "Your dad came to this country with one suitcase. I: Hmm. V: And today we have all of this.

V: It's because of his education, hard work, diligence, I: Hmm. V: that

V: we have been able to achieve this."

Vijay: The... If I can add to that, the ...

Vijay: the identity, our identity, got associated with technology because we came from Silicon Valley.

Vijay: You know, that-that is very ...

Vijay: not only from our point of view that we came from here,

Vijay: but that happened because of the importance that other person attaches to the technology. I: Hmm.

Vijay: You understand that-that demand side, I would say. Because

Vijay: I said ... and I can make this point from personal experience also, by giving with that ... by giving you the example of another

Vijay: industry.

Vijay: You know, when once I had gone on my business to Israel, I landed at Tel Aviv,

Vijay: and this is the very long time back, and I

Vijay: am at immigration counter and this girl, who is may be in her 20s, I: Hmm.

Vijay: okay? She looks up at me.

Vijay: I am coming from America, but she looks up at me, and didn't identify me

first of all as an Indian. I: Hmm. Vijay: While I have an American passport.

Vijay: Second thing she says astounds me. She said, "Oh, you look like Raj Kapoor. Raj Kapoor used to be an icon in

Vijay: Bollywood, and I look like him because of moustache.

Vijay: And by the way, he was dead six years, seven years, ten years before. I: Laugh. Vijay: I mean,

Vijay: the amazing thing was that she was doing this. And the moment I walk out of there, again the taxi driver,

Vijay: he says "Indian" and then he sings me a song "Mera Joota Hai Japani". I: Okay. Laughs.

Vijay: So then, there the entertainment industry was, kind of in their minds in one, but we got associated with it.

I: Yes. Yes. V: That's the soft power of India. I: True-true.

I: So, you know having had this great conversation, how do you see, you know, the future of

I: the Desis in Silicon Valley or Silicon Valley's future with respect to Desis?

V: I think Desis are going to continue to play a very important role in the Silicon Valley.

V: We have now raised a generation of overachievers.

I: Laughs. V: A lot of people in the

V: technology space. I mean, you know, I also want to say that in some ways, this is a skewed

V: demo-demo

V: demographic. I:Hmm.

V: Because not everybody from India was allowed to come to Silicon Valley, right? I: Sure. V: There's self-selection.

I: Hmm. Yes. V: As people with a certain skill set,

V: were able and had the ability to come. India is not across the border, right? We have crossed the seven

V: seas. Nobody is just jumping borders and coming into this country.

V: They're coming because they have a skill set that this country and the businesses in this country demands.

V: So these are people who have inherently, who have arrived here and, specifically talking about Silicon Valley,

V: with a certain ability, skill set, knowledge, education, I: Hmm. V: language. I: Hmm..

V: The families that they are raising here, they are coming with this additional privilege. I: Yes

V: It's not like everybody. I have friends who say "Oh my god,

V: India is a country of people all-all of like this." I said, "No

V: no, India is not a country full of people like this is."

V: Silicon Valley is like the crème de la crème of

V: India that's arrived here because they've had the privilege to come here. I: Yes

V: And now with family immigration, people are

V: able to bring their families no matter their skill sets into this country, and over time,

V: we're going to see a more diverse community. But at the moment, it's very

V: technology driven. I: Hmm. V: And

V: I

V: tell my children, I said, "You have genes, man." I: Laugh V: You know, you know with privilege it comes with,

V: you know, genes. You come with a background where your parents have the ability to support you in

V: enrichment, education.

V: You come from a family that

V: understands the value of education and the

V: opportunities that it opens up. So I, you know, education is a great

V: opener of the worlds to so many opportunities and I think

V: immigrants

V: from other, you know, from all over the globe and certainly from India are going to continue, to continue to be here and

V: Indians are going to play a big role in

V: the legacy of the

V: Silicon Valley. I: Hmm..

V: And what the new version is going to be, what they doing wrong with our is going to be, because that's also

changing, right? I: Yes. V: From the

V: the name Silicon Valley came from the silicon chips. I: Yeah

V: And today it's more, you know, the AI and the ... the social media

V: that is

V: connected and

V: connected the globe, and these are used by

V: individuals. You know, a Cisco chip

V: may have been inside a computer. I: Hmm. V: But people didn't know Cisco, but people know Facebook

V: and they know Google and they know Apple. The applications that are on every person's phone.

V: And

V: so I think the-the charm, the,

V: not novelty, I want to say,

V: the cachet of Silicon Valley is going for me, but I think it's also going to be, it's going to move us.

V: Because the pace at which technology is moving,

V: we're going to see big changes. I: Hmm. V: You know, in an average person's day-to-day life. It's when you affect

V: that - I: Hmm. V: that you become a household name. I: Yes. I

I: Just like "India Currents" has become. V: Laugh. Just like "India Currents" became. In our own small way,

V: I think, I

V: think we-we did play a role. I do recognize that-that "India Currents" did play a role in building this community. And

V: even today, I get a call from somebody at NPR who's looking to do, you know, an

V: afternoon special with

V: parents who are empty nesters and they want to connect with an Indian family.

V: And I have this phone call.

V: So, why do you want me? It's like,

V: well, I grew up with "India Currents." You know, that was our go-to source

V: to find any resources, and now I'm working at NPR and I'm still coming to "India Currents." So, that was a lovely talk

I : and we are talking about legacy right? Vijay: So what you asked about going forward

Vijay: and this, how will this go?

Vijay: Let me start with the small. First of all, there is a difference. We are actually standing at a watershed moment.

Vijay: I mean, this is, this was different before and now it's going to be different, certainly analogous like what the difference would be.

Vijay: But going with

Vijay: another anecdote,

Vijay: you might be familiar with the name Suhas Patil. He is one of the - the second

Vijay: billionaire of the Silicon Valley in 80's. I: Oh.

Vijay: So

Vijay: there he is among the first five

Vijay: successful entrepreneurs from India, technologists from India. I: Okay. Vijay: He was asked once, quite some time back --

Vijay: his company --

Vijay: Somebody asked him why there are so many Indians in it? I: Hmm.

Vijay: Okay. Yeah, so he answered, they were making silicon chips. I: Hmm.

Vijay: So he said that silicon chips is also known as integrated circuits. right? I: Hmm. Vijay: IC,

Vijay: IC, he said, "This is IC. It's just Indian and Chinese. That's it." I: Laughs. Vijay: Laughs.

Vijay: Because they are the ones who bring the skill there. So that was at that time, I: Hmm. Vijay: that skill

Vijay: was the thing that went in there. I: Yes. Vijay: but there were a lot of barriers to come here.

Vijay: When I came here, my god, they won't let you come in. Immigration people

Vijay: were very hard to get through the visa, the student visa itself, and they all came through the visitor visa.

Vijay: Suhas Patil also came through visitor visa and went to MIT. I: Hmm.Hmm.

Vijay: Okay, so these are all the barriers at the time because

Vijay: we were at the higher level. And by the way, again, "Indians Currents" has, to digress a little bit, we have

Vijay: documented that history, how the immigration has moved. I: Hmm.

Vijay: There was time in 40s when immigration was not allowed from India because Britishers didn't want it.

Vijay: We were the colonies, and they were afraid some of them will come here and raise the independence thing

Vijay: over here. I: Hmm. Vijay: So we were totally blocked. It is in the 60's that we

Vijay: started releasing that. V: After the Civil Rights Act was passed was really when the immigration

V: from India was restructured. Vijay: So, India's

Vijay: connection with Silicon Valley happened with a lot of

Vijay: difficult, structural difficulties. I: Hmm.Hmm.

Vijay: Still it overcame that. Why? Because they're two things: skill was there and demand was there. I: Hmm.

Vijay: So it did overcome. Going forward, this -